Should you remember 10 Dreamcast games - you can vote on the top DC games here

Started by big mean bunny
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big mean bunny

The site I have mentioned I am part of is having another 'top 200 DC games' vote that they run every few years. People here might not care to take part but thought I'd share anyway, if you can't be bothered to vote feel free to just post the games you would have voted on nt here, and that way we can get straight to arguing about if Sonic Adventure is good is not…

anyway the Google Docs form is for the vote and then there is a link to the blog post about it below, should you wish to read a much better written intro to it, but someone who isn't as bad as the words as me.

https://www.thedreamcastjunkyard.co.uk/2022/01/voting-is-open-for-dreamcast-junkyard.html

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JDubYes

Ooh, ooh! Erm. I think I can think of 10?

Power Stone I & II
Jet Set Radio
Ikaruga
Crazy Taxi
Quake III Arena
Soul Calibur
Resident Evil: Code Veronica
Rez
Chu Chu Rocket
MvC2

That’s not a bad 10. Still going…

Shenmue
Sonic Adventure
NFL Blitz
Soul Reaver?
That thing with the bounty Hunter with the beard? Headhunter, maybe?

(After a quick Google, I’m mainly annoyed I forgot MSR.)

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aniki

That thing with the bounty Hunter with the beard? Headhunter, maybe?

Yeah, that's Headhunter. Poster child for "greater than the sum of its parts".

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Ninchilla

My main memory of Chu Chu Rocket was playing with the Dreamcast keyboard because we didn't have enough controllers.

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Brian Bloodaxe

My main memory of Chu Chu Rocket was playing with the Dreamcast keyboard because we didn't have enough controllers.

If I remember Dreamcast controllers right, the keyboard would have been more ergonomic.

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Garwoofoo

Chu Chu Rocket is the one game from the Dreamcast era that I genuinely miss and hasn't had a proper modern re-release. I know it got a GBA version that went big on the puzzle mode but it's the four-player chaos that I really miss. You'd think in this day of online play it'd be a no-brainer.

Another game I haven't seen mentioned is Space Channel 5 Part 2 - it didn't get a UK release at the time but it was straightforward enough to play Japanese imports on the DC and it wasn't like it made any sense even if you knew what was going on.

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martTM

that way we can get straight to arguing about if Sonic Adventure is good is not…

It's not. It's really, really not. And that's coming from someone who deeply regrets giving it 90% in the first issue of Dreamcast Magazine.

Anyway, throwing these out there:

House of the Dead 2
Samba de Amigo
Skies of Arcadia
Jet Set Radio
Phantasy Star Online
Rez
Soul Calibur
Crazy Taxi
Marvel Vs Capcom 2
Headhunter

I don't really think it's possible to narrow it down to ten though. I mean, the two Power Stone games have to be in the mix, Chu Chu Rocket was great, JDub is absolutely on the money to include Soul Reaver and I have super fond memories of Alien Front Online, Code Veronica, Freelancer (think Elite Dangerous, but way before it redid the Elite template), Confidential Mission, Space Channel 5, Ikaruga and many, many more. What a console. If I thought I'd actually play it, rather than buying it and then letting it gather dust, I'd rebuy one in a heartbeat. I lost my Japanese one and all the games due to an ex's stupidity, and that's a pain that still hasn't healed.

Shout out to Illbleed, a JP-only horror adventure that was stupid but fun. Oh, and Blue Stinger is shit. Always was, always will be. :laughing:

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big mean bunny

At work on bad signal so will respond to these later fully. But Mart didn't know you worked on Dreamcast Magazine. I run a stream every month that is called "The video game book club" for that site and we are covering Sonic Adventure, so I might find that review and mention that comment if that's okay with you?

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big mean bunny

Soul Reaver is a brilliant game too, one of my favourites on the system. I picked that for the desert island draft thing that I mentioned here in another thread.

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martTM

At work on bad signal so will respond to these later fully. But Mart didn't know you worked on Dreamcast Magazine. I run a stream every month that is called "The video game book club" for that site and we are covering Sonic Adventure, so I might find that review and mention that comment if that's okay with you?

Sure. Make sure you get Dreamcast Magazine by Paragon though, not Official Dreamcast Magazine by Future. :smile:

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martTM

Mart will happily slag off [INSERT LITERALLY ANYTHING] if you bribe him with biscuits.

Fixed that one for you

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big mean bunny

At work on bad signal so will respond to these later fully. But Mart didn't know you worked on Dreamcast Magazine. I run a stream every month that is called "The video game book club" for that site and we are covering Sonic Adventure, so I might find that review and mention that comment if that's okay with you?

Sure. Make sure you get Dreamcast Magazine by Paragon though, not Official Dreamcast Magazine by Future. :smile:

Found it!

What specifically do you regret about the score? Is it the fact it's a game that feels rushed and unfinished in parts?! I only started playing it for the first time properly last month, but that's my thoughts, it's mostly an enjoyable game but I don't regret only playing the Demo and then never buying it at the time.

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big mean bunny

Chu Chu Rocket is the one game from the Dreamcast era that I genuinely miss and hasn't had a proper modern re-release. I know it got a GBA version that went big on the puzzle mode but it's the four-player chaos that I really miss. You'd think in this day of online play it'd be a no-brainer.

Another game I haven't seen mentioned is Space Channel 5 Part 2 - it didn't get a UK release at the time but it was straightforward enough to play Japanese imports on the DC and it wasn't like it made any sense even if you knew what was going on.

Love ChuChu, there is an Apple Arcade version but never played it, there was a team that did a sort of tribute successor to it, but what I played of the game (as we actually covered it on that site) it wasn't quite as good or polished in multiplayer, but was still decent. It's called 'Blob Cat' if you want to check it out.

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martTM

What specifically do you regret about the score? Is it the fact it's a game that feels rushed and unfinished in parts?! I only started playing it for the first time properly last month, but that's my thoughts, it's mostly an enjoyable game but I don't regret only playing the Demo and then never buying it at the time.

Well, that's kicked my memory into touch… my name's not even on the review. I distinctly remember playing that for review! But whatever. That mag is hideously ugly, so overly busy and hard to get through. The review I did seemingly write for HOTD2 is awful too, you can tell I was just starting out as a review writer, but at least the score is more accurate to the truth…

Pretty much all the reviews (hell, all the content period) in that issue are subject to 'First issue' syndrome, meaning everything was great. Always the way, be super enthusiastic about everything so people become invested. I guess there's a sense of hindsight too, since back then what Sonic was doing was new and exciting for him whereas now we have better examples to compare it to. But the game isn't good, it's janky as hell and only the music still stands up today.

Didn't originally put it on my list because I remember it better as an N64 title, but Shadowman on Dreamcast was also awesome. Apparently the remaster (quote unquote) is coming out this month so I might grab it for old times sake, just to be reminded that memories aren't always to be relied on.

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big mean bunny

Yeah I noticed the review had no reviewer name but did have the name of the 2nd opinion person.

I can't find it now (thought it was Sega Retro) but they had someone else listed as the reviewer but no idea what they are basing that on as can't see any info.

Reading it last night I enjoyed the crazy layout of the magazine! But mainly our of nostalgia.

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big mean bunny

Did anyone vote btw? Or has anyone put there games into a rank order? I am still struggling but thinking some form of

1) Soul Calibur
2)ChuChu Rocket
3)Shenmue
4)Crazy Taxi
5)Sega Bass Fishing
6)Virtua Tennis 2
7)Soul Reaver
8)Tony Hawk Pro skater 2
9)Dino Crisis
10)Virtua Striker 2

Got a couple of others kicking around and some of the above aren't fantastic but are emotionally important to me.

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Garwoofoo

I quite enjoyed reading through that magazine, cheers Mart. There's something about the slightly desperate enthusiasm of new console launches that never really gets old. It's clear there wasn't nearly enough actual information to fill a magazine yet, but it just about scrapes by with pictures of the machine itself and plenty of tits. All the mail order ads feel like they come from a bygone age.

"One graphical area the Dreamcast excels in is lighting - look at these effects!" (indeterminate orange splodge)

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martTM

It's clear there wasn't nearly enough actual information to fill a magazine yet, but it just about scrapes by with pictures of the machine itself and plenty of tits.

Wait until Bunny digs out the issue with Shenmue on the cover (I want to say it's an early one, definitely before issue 10) where the only Shenmue content in the mag is a tiny news story we made up, because the MD demanded that Shenmue was the cover image, and refused to accept our argument that there was nothing to put in the mag to justify it happening…

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martTM

Yeah I noticed the review had no reviewer name but did have the name of the 2nd opinion person.

The main reviewer of Sonic was Jem Roberts, wasn't it? Brother of the Editorial Director, for shame, and a man with absolutely no love for writing about games. I'm not sure why he did.

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martTM

If his name is on it, then he must have. That's what the byline is for.

I'm only listed as a contributor, so thinking back I couldn't have come on board as Games/Reviews/Something like that Editor until… issue 6? I think. Lara Croft on the cover springs to mind.

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aniki

Christ, I'd forgotten just how many ads were in these things. And the hyperactive "ALL THE BOXOUTS" page layout.

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martTM

Christ, I'd forgotten just how many ads were in these things. And the hyperactive "ALL THE BOXOUTS" page layout.

I remember being in design meetings for new mags where the design heads would present their ideas that had been months in the planning, and they were all like this. Then Edge went all minimalist and they stole that layout instead for gamesTM.

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aniki

On the thread subject, I'm not sure I actually had ten Dreamcast games. There were a few I never got around to picking up – Rez, JSR and Ikaruga for instance – and I wasn't much of a fighting game fan, so my library has some huge gaps in it.

As a result, there are only eight games I have particularly fond memories of playing on the machine itself, though some of those come with pretty big caveats around their lack of modern design conventions.

Skies of Arcadia is the only one that unquestionably holds up. Its art style hasn't aged as badly as most of these, but the music and menu-driven, turn-based combat are timeless. The bright blue skies and optimistic, heroic characters and story still feel like outliers in the JRPG space, especially after the gritty industrial aesthetic FFVII brought in. The only real problem is its aggressive random battle schedule, though that may also be responsible for its straightforward difficulty curve.

Shenmue is still reasonably solid, based on my time with the HD remaster at least, and its commitment to realism still impresses me more than it frustrates. The controls are, however, awful – and despite Yu Suzuki's fighting-game pedigree, the combat is an exercise in frustration more often than not, with unblockable enemy attacks that will reliably interrupt Ryo's combos.

Power Stone was great and honestly still holds up pretty well. I never gelled with the sequel's four-player mode and shifting battle maps, but my brothers and I taking turns jumping into the air and RT-kicking our way across Londo until someone made contact was endlessly amusing to us.

Headhunter, as mentioned above, is my all-time candidate for "greater than the sum of its parts". Dodgy animation, clunky controls, Jack Wade's laughable budget-Clint-Eastwood voice… it shouldn't have worked, but a compelling Robocop-lite story and soaring musical score really elevated it.

The lack of a ChuChu Rocket remake/remaster in this era of online gaming is definitely a staggering oversight by someone, somewhere. A hundred-player, Tetris 99-style battle royale version seems like a no-brainer.

Crazy Taxi has aged pretty poorly: it's utter chaos, with twitchy controls and over-excited physics, and in most modern incarnations lacks the soundtrack that introduced me to an all-time favourite band. But pushing the time limit just a few more seconds to pick up another fare, finding the right angle to shortcut off an overpass; when it clicked together it was tremendous fun.

Metropolis: Street Racer was always tougher than it should have been, for my money; the karma system was interesting but often got in the way of racing. (I don't know if PGR ever figured that one out, either.) I always have fond memories of unlocking my parents' car in the game and customizing it with their numberplate though, even if it never did manage to take a top time around San Francisco.

House of the Dead 2 was my first – and only? – home lightgun game. I don't know how my parents were okay with its gouts of gore and disgusting creature design (especially with our ten? year-old brother in the room), but we played enough of it to see the ending at least a couple of times, which would have been unheard of in the arcade (without a few hundred pound coins anyway).

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Ninchilla

The only other game I particularly remember making much of an impact on (y)our Dreamcast was Euro-RPG Silver, which had an interesting, but probably not-so-fun-these-days real-time combat system.

I think I picked up the PC version on GoG in a sale at some point, but can't remember if I actually played it…

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aniki

We also had Toy Commander, which was better in concept than in execution – a modern game with the same concept would undoubtedly be able to do more interesting things than the sterile, mostly-empty environments the Dreamcast could support.

I remember Code Veronica looked good but I've never really clicked with Resident Evil games so I don't think we ever got far with it.

Euro-RPG Silver, which had an interesting, but probably not-so-fun-these-days real-time combat system

Honestly I think the sword-swinging mechanic is slightly better (or at least more intuitive) on a pad than with a mouse, but the voice acting is… "of its time".

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big mean bunny

If his name is on it, then he must have. That's what the byline is for.

I'm only listed as a contributor, so thinking back I couldn't have come on board as Games/Reviews/Something like that Editor until… issue 6? I think. Lara Croft on the cover springs to mind.

Sorry I mean I can't find anyone's name on it on the actual mag, I saw his name listed against it elsewhere, but no idea how they have come to that. Annoying Ctr-F doesn't work on the PDF.

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big mean bunny

We also had Toy Commander, which was better in concept than in execution – a modern game with the same concept would undoubtedly be able to do more interesting things than the sterile, mostly-empty environments the Dreamcast could support.

I remember Code Veronica looked good but I've never really clicked with Resident Evil games so I don't think we ever got far with it.

Euro-RPG Silver, which had an interesting, but probably not-so-fun-these-days real-time combat system

Honestly I think the sword-swinging mechanic is slightly better (or at least more intuitive) on a pad than with a mouse, but the voice acting is… "of its time".

I only played this properly for the first time last year and utterly loved it. Especially later on into the game. It feels like that should have been the game they made the Toy Story games like.

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martTM

If his name is on it, then he must have. That's what the byline is for.

I'm only listed as a contributor, so thinking back I couldn't have come on board as Games/Reviews/Something like that Editor until… issue 6? I think. Lara Croft on the cover springs to mind.

Sorry I mean I can't find anyone's name on it on the actual mag, I saw his name listed against it elsewhere, but no idea how they have come to that. Annoying Ctr-F doesn't work on the PDF.

The name of the reviewer is right at the end of the review in bold type.

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Garwoofoo

Trying to think of some games I played that haven't been mentioned yet.

Bangai-O was pretty good fun, completely mental and not exactly a showcast for the Dreamcast but a very decent shoot-em-up.

Nobody ever seems to mention Wacky Races which was a third-rate Mario Kart clone that nevertheless was quite good fun, and was the first time I ever saw cel-shading used as a graphical technique.

I'm pretty sure I played Rayman 2 on the Dreamcast although it was of course available on other machines. Conversely, like Mart I played Shadowman on the N64.

One thing that the Dreamcast doesn't often get credited for is that it was the first console in Europe that allowed full speed, unbordered 60Hz modes - if not quite by default, then certainly for the majority of titles. I guess TVs that supported this had only really been around for a few years. Combined with an RGB SCART cable, the quality of the output from the Dreamcast was just light years ahead of what the other consoles could produce. I remember being absolutely floored by the Soul Calibur intro sequence, the smoothness of it all was just something completely new.

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martTM

Nobody ever seems to mention Wacky Races which was a third-rate Mario Kart clone that nevertheless was quite good fun, and was the first time I ever saw cel-shading used as a graphical technique.

Yes! Pretty sure I reviewed that, but it was better than it had any right to be.

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big mean bunny

Wacky Races is really good. Whilst not an open world it does have a little hub to drive around in too to select the races I seem to recall, that I also thought seemed cool.

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martTM

There's a severe lack of PSO/PSO ver2 and Re-Volt in everyone's lists…

Anyway, throwing these out there:

House of the Dead 2
Samba de Amigo
Skies of Arcadia
Jet Set Radio
Phantasy Star Online
Rez
Soul Calibur
Crazy Taxi
Marvel Vs Capcom 2
Headhunter

sorry what

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martTM

Re-Volt, if I'm remembering correctly, was also surprisingly good. But as I've already proven, I don't remember correctly very often.

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wev

It was very, very good. My group of friends spent alot of time playing it in multiplayer, kind of captured the Kart vibe that was all the rage at that time and blended it with Micro Machines. Lots of different cars to choose from, some excellent circuits and THAT theme tune.

The track creator was quite nice too.

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wev

Red Dog, Fur Fighters and San Francisco Rush 2049 were very good in multiplayer too.

Looking back I seem to recall Acclaim had a few good games on the Dreamcast (though only one of the above were from them)

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aniki

There was no doubt in my mind and what game would top the list, but it seems pretty balanced overall (despite quite a few weird indie games released after Sega called time of death on the machine itself).

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big mean bunny

There was no doubt in my mind and what game would top the list, but it seems pretty balanced overall (despite quite a few weird indie games released after Sega called time of death on the machine itself).

Being honest a lot of that I support but don't actually like. Xenocrisis is excellent and it's very impressive they got the twin stick controller (the Virtua On ones) working.

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Alastor

Is Shenmue > Shenmue 2 a common opinion? I'm biased since I played Shenmue 2 first on the Xbox but haing played them both in order for the first time in the run up to Shemue 3's release I REALLY liked how Shenmue 2 took the first game's comfy 'hometown' feeling (besides err, the whole dad being murdered thing of course…) and put Ryo into a situation where he didn't know anything and anyone about the place, so walking around and asking directions and checking out stores felt like I was in tune with where Ryo was at, also I just think it's plain better on most accounts.

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aniki

Shenmue 2 lost a lot of the original's charm, for me. I've long lost count of how many times I've played through the first one, but the sequel sacrificed all the detail for a bigger, less interesting world. Necessarily, due to the hardware or course, which also meant that all the areas had to be relatively small and pokey, which totally undermined a lot of its attempts at scale.

I also remember it looking a lot worse; there's one guy in particular right at the start of the game, in one of the pier warehouse arm-wrestling minigames, whose horrifically-rigged shoulders still haunt my nightmares. More generally, where the original was muted and realistic, the sequel felt gaudy.

And I really hated the ending, which seemed to come completely out of nowhere in a game that, up to that point, had been at pains to emphasise how grounded and realistic it was.