Don't know how quickly I'll get through it; it's not exactly family viewing. I've done about the first 90 minutes or so and teared up once already, Spoiler - click to shownot even over any plot stuff, but one of the notes you find scattered about.
I could already gush about the writing, performances, little touches of animation, or whatever, but it's Naughty Dog - you know what kind of polish you're getting (and the wringer they put the staff through to get it…).
I haven't played this game and I kind of hope that I never will. It was made by crunching its team incredibly hard, under circumstances that are - frankly - abusive sounding. Its depiction of trans people is, judging by the skuttle from trans friends of mine, extremely shitty. It wants to wallow in this edgy and grim violence and we're lauding Druckmann as some kind of genius mastermind when everything I'm hearing makes playing this game sound like a death march, an arduous labour to be undertaken over the span of weeks as your constitution allows. A lot of reviews are calling it a triumphant masterpiece or something, but the only triumph that it's achieved is another example of why crunch still happens. It's because it works, because it produces critically and commercially lauded product.
At least with Hideo Kojima there's some inventive game systems in the mix with the shitty work environment and crass storytelling.
Not one for me. Never played the first, never will. Just not my kind of game (same reason Uncharted doesn't appeal and I'm unlikely to ever play Horizon even though I have it). But hey, more power to those that do I guess.
I haven't gotten to anything problematic yet, but it's still early; everything is kind of bleak, though that's just par for the course given the series to date. It does introduce a couple of new mechanics over the Part I/Left Behind, but no, it's not what you'd call pioneering on that front.
As far as it goes, the dialogue is well-written, but it's serviceable on the plot; the first one wasn't exactly groundbreaking, either, though. The Last of Us is a fairly by-the-numbers post-apocalypse road trip drama that I can imagine would pass unremarked in film or as a novel, elevated mainly by the performances and commitment to the atmosphere. It'll be interesting to see what people unfamiliar with the game make of the upcoming HBO series.
Okay, so I missed out on Uncharted 4 and Lost Legacy (I think I have at least 2 game on PS+ backlog? I'll get there man) so maybe this isn't as big a jump for some of you but the cutscene direction in this game is absolute gold standard next level shit right here, the way everyone moves and the facial animation and the excellent voice acting. I'm literally typing this 20mins into the game so I don't have much to add, but holy shit.
That's the disconnect I'm having - it's clearly a phenomenal technical and artistic achievement, but I'm all too aware of the meat grinder that produced it.
Details like clickers leaving puffs of breath-steam in the air as they sound you out, the desperate grimace of effort on Ellie's face as she stealth-kills a runner, the snow tech, the lighting… but couldn't it have been achieved without a ravenous beast demanding blood-sacrifice for four years? Does the industry - and Naughty Dog specifically - really believe that the only way to achieve this level of product is to have a toxic culture of peer-pressure-enforced permanent overtime?
The human cost of The Last of Us Part II makes me as uncomfortable as any virtual atrocity the game is asking me to commit… but then again, I bought the damn thing, so I'm half the fucking problem.
I have no idea what the right to do here is, maybe it's a weak justification but after all the hours they put into it I can't imagine they don't want people to experience it. If I knew they didn't want the game to sell and this would affect some sort of change I'd have happily done so though. And I'm okay with waiting longer or not getting some games at all if it meant people weren't put through horrendous working conditions.
As for the game itself, erm….big spoilers, if you know, you know.
Spoiler - click to showIf they were gonna' do this, I think they should have done it a bit later. I dunno' if I like how it was done. And obviously it's very early so maybe this becomes a brilliant plot point woven into the theme of the game but I already think the ending to the first game is being tarnished
Also, not really a fan of scavenging from outposts, that entire part slowed the game down to a crawl for me, I'd say I hope it doesn't do that again, but it will won't it? Same way we can add 'the rope' to the family of the plank, pallet and ladder (I better not see a single ladder I'm serious -_-) But…that's it so far I guess. I've not done anything particularly heinous yet, I'm just waiting for the game to make me do something that justifies the amount of complaints I've read from gamers who have all apparently hit some emotional threshold simultaneously. I'm not saying this won't be a problem or legitimate criticism but I dunno man, just feels weird that suddenly people I wouldn't expect to care, suddenly care for some reason.
Not gonna' lie, game almost lost me before Day 2. The pacing fell off a cliff and the combat encounters were about as brainead as they come…but it's been pretty good so far, but I guess I'll wait for people to catch up.
Overall I'm not completely sold on the game not hate it just it yet, but there are some things I really like besides the general animation:
-Dinah is better than I expected
-I like the couple dynamic of Dinah and Ellie,
-the level design is great artistically and in terms of 'combat arenas'
I've avoided all of the internet moaning about this (aside from learning that they're moaning about something).
Without spoiling anything, are they just having a Last Jedi-style moan, because the game focuses on people who aren't straight white men? Or are there legitimate, non-twat reasons to find issue with the story?
I've avoided all of the internet moaning about this (aside from learning that they're moaning about something).
Without spoiling anything, are they just having a Last Jedi-style moan, because the game focuses on people who aren't straight white men? Or are there legitimate, non-twat reasons to find issue with the story?
I was in the same boat. Nearly pulled the trigger on a pre-order last week but had a quick read of the Polygon review which had a negative tone overall with particular criticism directed at the writing and character development. It made the game sound relentlessly grim and heavy handed. At that point I think only Polygon and Vice had been overly negative towards the game (because I had a look to see if other reviews were following the thread of the only one I'd read). So when I saw there was a fuss about the game in the wider community I figured maybe, just maybe it was a widespread displeasure with the game as it stands, critical darling that doesn't live up to expectations…
But yeah, it's gamers being gamers: 'I can't play as a girl and definitely not a gay girl! Who comes up with these far fetched characters?'
I enjoyed the first one but this looks too relentlessly grim for me, right now, at this point in time. I’m retreating into comfort gaming to keep me sane.
I’m sure it’s a good game. I’m equally sure there will be a next gen remaster in less than 12 months with more content and probably double the frame rate, so I’m happy to wait.
Despite meming on this game about it I really don't think it's this unrelenting bombardment of misery everyone would have you believe so far. There's one (1) scene so far I'd say was really grim but I can't see how the first game was any better in this regard.
Anyway its hard to say if the other complaints are legit, besides the idiots moaning about the gay couple and stuff, I think maybe you might take issue with the direction they take it, I felt the ending the first was so good because you don't know what happens next, and now…you do, so this might clash with what you expected.
With the disclosure that I've only played about 5 hours, it's not been all that grim so far. There's one properly brutal bit about 2 hours into the thing, but other than that, I'd say that it has more levity under its belt than the same point in the first game, which started off very dark and slowly worked its way towards the light.
However, I can foresee that this could go to some tough places.
The Last of Us 2 isn’t just a masterpiece; it’s an ingenious step in the right direction…This may very well be the most “human” game ever made, and an absolute triumph for the industry. Take from that what you will.
The excitement and emotion the experience playing The Last of Us Part 2 conveys is nothing short of remarkable making it a game that you definitely should pick up for your PS4.
Naughty Dog again brings its unique vision of videogames with The Last of Us Part 2, its latest gem. Maybe it’s not a perfect game, but if you want a deep and engaging history and believable and touching characters this is your game. It’s an incredibly original videogame.
reviews for TLoU2 or Heavy Rain with the names swapped, you decide.
In a medium where everything is The Expendables, Heavy Rain is Schindler's List. And just like that film, there were times where I wasn't sure I could keep going. It is a relentless emotional assault that I suspect will force even the most jaded gamer to feel empathy.
Im about ten hours in, and yes the story can be brutal at times. But there are also scenes of beautiful levity, love and companionship.
I don't want to pull the I've got LBGT friends card, but I am, and I do not understand so far what anyone's problem would be with it, other than I'm not playing as a straight white man. I've obviously not read the spoilers and have not finished the story but I can't see what the issue is.
.The game itself, its the first one with all the necessary tweaks made to take it to another level.
I haven't played this game and I kind of hope that I never will. It was made by crunching its team incredibly hard, under circumstances that are - frankly - abusive sounding. Its depiction of trans people is, judging by the skuttle from trans friends of mine, extremely shitty. It wants to wallow in this edgy and grim violence and we're lauding Druckmann as some kind of genius mastermind when everything I'm hearing makes playing this game sound like a death march, an arduous labour to be undertaken over the span of weeks as your constitution allows. A lot of reviews are calling it a triumphant masterpiece or something, but the only triumph that it's achieved is another example of why crunch still happens. It's because it works, because it produces critically and commercially lauded product.
At least with Hideo Kojima there's some inventive game systems in the mix with the shitty work environment and crass storytelling.
But aren't you criticising the game without having played it? I take your point about the brutal crunch, but that is a separate thing from the actual finished creation. You can't judge something based on the conditions in which it was created, otherwise we wouldn't be able to enjoy the pyramids or any Hitchcock or David Fincher movies. I think I'll reserve judgement on whether the storytelling is crass or too grim until I've played it.
You can't judge something based on the conditions in which it was created
Why not? Art doesn't spring into being in a vacuum; the creation process is part of it. The pyramids are only so impressive because of the horrific volume of suffering thrown at their construction; I don't know how you could look at them and not be aware of the human cost. You can't say "this is a hell of an achievement" and not consider how it was achieved.
Of course you can consider and criticise the conditions in which something was created, but when judging the creation you can't just say "this is a bad work of art because it was created in a harmful environment." You can say, "I will not buy this work of art because it was created in a harmful environment." or "this work of art is tainted by the harmful environment in which it was created" but saying it is bad based on nothing except the environment it was created seems wrong to me.
To be clear, I didn't know anything about the brutal crunch during the creation of TLoU2 and hearing about it now does turn me against the game. A lot of the criticism seems to be of the storytelling and gameplay, though, and is coming from people who have experienced neither.
Just as an aside, quite a lot of recent research suggests the workers that made the pyramids weren't slaves and were actually treated pretty well. Possibly better than we treat amazon and Sports Direct workers.
Haha yeah, I think I read that a while back as well, but it retreated back out of my brain when I learned something new about snails or something. Now that I know about both snails AND pyramid working conditions, I assume I've forgotten something else. I hope it wasn't important
I'm still on Day 1 - just got past the Spoiler - click to showFuck FEDRA Gate,having cleared out everything in Spoiler - click to showDowntown Seattle. There've been tense moments before now, but I had my first proper, "ohfuckohfuckohfuck" moment in Spoiler - click to showthe bank - Really, Naughty Dog? Clickers with fucking body armour!? - where I ran out of ammo entirely, and managed to survive by the skin of my molotov cocktail. Even Spoiler - click to showthe courtroom basement wasn't so bad, mainly because it's so fucking dark down there I couldn't see what was coming for me.
Anyway, hooray for a shotgun, but boo for only 3 rounds.
Definite highlight so far, was setting fire to a human and then having him and his mates swarmed by clickers.
I’m on Day 3, still the story surprises. I’m getting the impression that there are new threads which have just been introduced, which are the aforementioned problematic ones.
I was gonna' say actually, later 'stages' felt much better to me for sneaking about and shooting back if you get caught. I thought it was practically so easy in the first game it was basically a gimmie, almost feeling like an afterthought. But a certain gang area in the last few bits was full of quite a lot of people, maybe it was just me but I was getting caught and restarting a lot. Though sometimes I just take the L and start shooting back, the AI will still walk in front of you to get shot but they seem to have more numbers this time and I've been getting swarmed a fair bit.
Gameplay is definitely better, story not looking to be better and the bit I'm on is very…er, bold, and feels like a massive assumption on Naughty Dog's part.
Pacing is still a mess, I mean
Spoiler - click to showFlashbacks within flashbacks? :thinking:
But aren't you criticising the game without having played it? I take your point about the brutal crunch, but that is a separate thing from the actual finished creation. You can't judge something based on the conditions in which it was created, otherwise we wouldn't be able to enjoy the pyramids or any Hitchcock or David Fincher movies. I think I'll reserve judgement on whether the storytelling is crass or too grim until I've played it.
The 'you can't criticise a game without playing it' thing is bullshit. This is the Steam Page for Sex With Stalin a porno game with this in its steam page: "Tired of enduring the dictator? Show him where the hell is! Hit him in the stomach, plug in the electricity to his nipples, jump on his back!"
I think it's fair to criticise that game without having played it. You can absolutely criticise things without having played them. You can absolutely engage with something that comes from a difficult creative background, and you can seperate art from artist.
You absolutely can judge things based on the conditions in which it was created, but you also have to have the idea that there's no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism. Don't get me wrong, TLoU is a very impressive technical achievement! The way it uses cubemaps into screen space reflections to hide the limitations of SSR is really impressive! Capsule reflection maps to give a sense of depth to blurry-glossy surfaces is great! Its defused prebaked lighting solution and faked ambient occlusion on static environments is really, really impressive and the fact that 70% of the design team quit as soon as Uncharted 4 shipped showing that there's been a long term history of abuse of workers is also really impressive.
As for Crass, I will eat my hat if there isn't a 'please feel conflicted emotions about the villain when you unthinkingly kill their dog and they weep over the poor canine's body' scene. That's an easy, slow pitch of a ball and a shortcut to emotional impact that even David Cage would look at and go 'jesus, phone it in a little more why don't you'
I can't really continue until people get at least a little further. But overall I can say I enjoyed it, enjoyed some parts much more than I was expecting to. They did good stuff with the Infected this time, and some of the encounters and improved gameplay made it very fun to play.
On the other hand…like I said earlier, it does feel longer than it is (21 hours for me). The pacing is pretty awful at points (to anyone playing, if you found Seattle Day 1 and exploring Ellie's map was putting you off the rest of the game, I hated it too, it gets better). Some of the story stuff is questionable and doesn't quite land, but some stuff actually made me quite sad too.
…but I'll say what I really wanna' talk about when people get further.
I like just wandering around the place, generally; even in the first one, I did a lot of bumbling about exploring and scavenging.
I really need to get better at stealth. I'm running out of ammo almost as soon as I find any, so firefights never go well, and I keep forgetting dodge is on L1, not circle, so fistfights aren't much better.
I think they added a few things that make stealth way better in this, namely the Spoiler - click to showdogs and the fact that I don't think any one area in the first was as big and swarmed as some of the later maps in this. AI is still a bit errr, basic though.
Combat too can also look a bit janky at times but usually I find it captures the desperate struggle to survive really well. Again, they added some new stuff and enemies that make you need to dodge a bit more than the average guy. So despite all the faults I have with the AI I really liked it regardless.
Now you can craft silencers, one of my favourite tactics is to sneak up behind one guy, shoot the other and kill the guy you have and not alerting anyone. Also, those few moments you can cause Infected to attack the enemy but the game doesn't tell you (I think very early on there's a petrol station that does this), one of the cool mechanics from Left Behind so I'm glad it's back.
Spoiler - click to showThe flashback got me so hard and I don't give a fuck if it was dishonest or whatever the internet was saying about the guilt thingy with the one dog scene, it was a perfect slice of TLOU1 feels. I still think Joel died too soon, but this helped a bit imo. Man, when Ellie sees the 'Liars' graffiti under the Firefly thing, you just know that hit her hard.
As for Crass, I will eat my hat if there isn't a 'please feel conflicted emotions about the villain when you unthinkingly kill their dog and they weep over the poor canine's body' scene. That's an easy, slow pitch of a ball and a shortcut to emotional impact that even David Cage would look at and go 'jesus, phone it in a little more why don't you'
Spoiler - click to show So did you end up liking Abby in the end? I was like 'oh hell no' when I first got to her section after Ellie's, this was only made worse when all of her dickhead friends not only didn't really feel remorse for torturing Joel to death, but wanted him to get worse??? But as much as I'd like to say no…I really like Abby now!
Spoiler - click to showHer parts of the game are also way better than Ellie's let be honest, all the shit that gets thrown at her…she gets all those 'struggle to survive' moments like the big dudes with the hammer, the ratking infected in the Hospital (which was such a sick bit) and that strangely determined Seraphite dude who just didn't die for some some reason, lol. Too bad no one will ever give her the credit she deserves because she killed Joel (I'm not saying I forgive her) and the way she looks.
If anyone, ANYONE can play Powder Snow on the Guitar or knows someone who can, @ me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Same way as most other places - the word spoiler in square brackets - but you can only put one paragraph in between the tags. Any form of line break causes the spoiler to stop working.
Spoiler - click to showI loved Abby in the end. In the final fight my first attempt was just to let her beat the shit out of Ellie, and hated that I could not just let her win.
I'm still very early - just setting off for the Spoiler - click to showhospital
in Day 2 - but I'm not sure playing this immediately before bed is necessarily the best idea.
Not even because it's scary - it's certainly incredibly tense at times, but the infected are weird and monstrous and ludicrous enough that they don't get into my subconscious in any significant way once I turn the thing off. It's more that it's… kind of draining, emotionally. Again, not even in the "relentless death march" way people have talked about (yet, anyway), but in a sort of small, intense, personal pressure. There's just something about these characters that gets its hooks in, and it always takes me around a half hour to decompress after each session.
