Red Dead Redemption 2

Only six more months…

I'm still very cagey on this one. I'm sure the production values will be through the roof, and I'm sure the atmosphere will be bang on target, but… Rockstar just can't write a good story, which usually means I end up bouncing off their games sooner rather than later.

I'm one of those that never really clicked with the original. I've tried on a few occasions and never really gotten very far.

Reckon I'll buy it cheap later.

I enjoyed pottering around in the world more than I enjoyed the story of Redemption, though I thought the very last shootout was very well handled. Dan Houser just can't f–king write; he frankensteins better authors' work together and assumes he's as good as they are. At least the setting has less room for tedious juvenile bullshit than GTA.

I don't know that I'll be in on day one, but it will be a difficult temptation to resist.

I've never played the first game. Is it likely to be necessary in order to fully enjoy the sequel? Does it still bear up well as a game?

I actually have a disc copy of the Xbox 360 version and it runs on Xbone backwards compatibility so I'm seriously wondering whether to give it a go, or just join the hype train for the (undoubtedly massively more advanced) sequel.

I get the impression that the protagonist of the first game makes an appearance, but that’s about it for any kind of shared story/continuity, and unless I’m very much mistaken RDR2 is actually set earlier than RDR.

The first was a very good game too though, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it holds up.

I was all ready to preorder this earlier, but the digital versions were so expensive, and came with such a bewildering array of (largely seemingly pointless) shit that I’ve left it for now, at least until I work out if any of it is worthwhile. I’ll almost certainly get it anyway though - I was already looking forward to it, then watched A Fistful of Dollars yesterday morning and it’s really out me in the right mood…

The first was a very good game too though, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it holds up.

It definitely does. I went back to it not long ago and some slightly rough visual edges aside, it's still just as grand. So much better than GTA for me… riding around was so relaxing, so liberating. Give me a horse over a car any day.

The zombie DLC was also great. Not getting this yet as on a stricter games buying policy. Only buying games with money I make selling games. But looking to grab this in a console bundle as mine is feeling the strain it feels like. Particularly bad at reading discs.

The first was a very good game too though, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it holds up.

It definitely does. I went back to it not long ago and some slightly rough visual edges aside, it's still just as grand. So much better than GTA for me… riding around was so relaxing, so liberating. Give me a horse over a car any day.

I got PS3 copies of RDR and GTAIV in a Rockstar sale on the PSN a few years ago. Went back to RDR when Westworld was on the telly. It's still enjoyable but I guess like most open world Rockstar games you really have to get over that early hump to get into the meat of the game and even then… Mexico.

Impressions after 1 hour – Christ this is fiddly.

Impressions after 2 hours – Jesus Christ this is fiddly.

Hold A to make your horse run, then hold LT to focus on a character to bring up dialogue options, then while holding A and LT press X to ask a question, but quick there are wolves and you need to reload so press RB… hmm that didn't do anything… ah RB is only reload on foot, on your horse reload is B, which would normally be punch, okay reload and press LT again hoping now that it's no longer assigned to 'focus on friendly NPC' and has switched to 'aim down sights'. Shit my horse has run out of stamina… no wait, that's not the stamina gauge that's the internal stamina gauge which affects a different stat…

WHY.

On the plus side, it's beautiful. It's been years since I had my last "shit, that's next level" feeling from a game's visuals – probably Killzone PS4 at launch – but this game has those moments in spades.

You just have to hold LT whilst tapping A and maneuvering the right stick with your pinky finger to see them.

The zombie DLC was also great. Not getting this yet as on a stricter games buying policy. Only buying games with money I make selling games. But looking to grab this in a console bundle as mine is feeling the strain it feels like. Particularly bad at reading discs.

Good to see Martanomics still going strong in 2018.

I should point out I have close to the funds already for the console from selling my switch games. So not complete martanomics.

Impressions after 1 hour – Christ this is fiddly.

Impressions after 2 hours – Jesus Christ this is fiddly.

You're not the first person I've seen say stuff along these lines.

Honestly, I'm kind of glad; if it was just universal praise from all quarters, I'd just end up with another game I'll never get around to finishing.

I'm finding it amusing that near on collectively this forum, including myself, have come across as "that guy" that has to state that their not "hyped" for this. The first one did little for me and I (admittedly) abandoned it quickly, I'll just continue plodding through the stuff I've already got and add the occasional title at special occasions (I'm getting old aren't I?)

I think I just hated GTAV so much that it broke whatever spell Rockstar had ever managed to weave; technically impressive they may be, but I don't really enjoy inhabiting the worlds they make.

I am doing the intro part and this looks, sounds and feels great, I am very impressed.

Okay, once you get past the opening chapter the fiddliness melts into insignificance. Because good god, the world they’ve built is utterly magnificent. I almost feel bad admiring the insane detail that 100-hour work weeks have achieved.

The whole thing feels truly next-gen, especially in 4K on the One X. There isn’t one single thing you could call out because it’s all just so bloody brilliant.

I mean the controls are still bobbins. But it’s worth the entry price just to walk around the world.

Don't feel too guilty about enjoying it, the article about the horrendous working conditions at Rockstar that's doing the rounds is mostly bullshit.

I dunno, I've known a few people who worked there back in the day and none of the bad stories sound the least bit unlikely to me.

Back in the day, maybe but not anymore. I've known different people who worked and still work there, and none of them had anything bad to say about it. My friend who is working there now is who described the latest story as bullshit.

I agree that the world is truly stunning, in a world where pretty much every open world looks amazing that usually doesn't mean much to me, but it's really nice here. Gameplay wise I'm having fun, but it's very much RDR Ultra HD so far, if you hated RDR I don't see anything significant here to make you like this instead. Also feels like a fair amount of Assassin's Creed has crept into this game, could you upgrade your equipment and camp in the first game? Well you can here and not sure if I'm really feeling it.

I think BOTW has truly spoiled me on open world games though, will we even see another open world game where you can directly interact with so much of the world and also so much of the world has a reason to be explored or at least something to offer?

Back in the day, maybe but not anymore. I've known different people who worked and still work there, and none of them had anything bad to say about it. My friend who is working there now is who described the latest story as bullshit.

I worked there and can tell you first hand, it ain't bullshit. It could have been a GTA4 era thing but speaking with the ex DMA people I work with now that worked on GTA3 and VC suggests it might have been a more long term thing. Maybe the GTA5 money has let them change how it works since then but I might not be entirely surprised.

Either way, Houser should probably not talk to the press ever again because he managed to fit it into his mouth up to the fuckin' knee.

The most extreme stuff definitely seems to date from the GTA4 era but it's clearly far from rosy still and the stories coming out not just around Rockstar but across the industry are pretty shocking. Maybe it's because Rockstar are (at least partially) UK-based that makes it all seem closer to home.

There's clearly a huge problem not just in terms of people's healths and livelihoods but in terms of the sustainability of the industry. It seems like it would be impossible to juggle these kind of insane demands with any kind of family life, so it's the kind of thing people can push through in their twenties but then what? Does the game industry run on a permanent hamster wheel of kids on the verge of burnout?

Near as I can tell? Yeah, most of it.

Hey, don't forget grownups that have literally zero capacity to transition out of it!

Slave labour concerns aside, I've heard enough now about RDR2 to make me seriously concerned as to whether I'd enjoy it or not. In particular people seem to be complaining that story missions often pull you out of the open world without warning, and that there are arbitrary "fail" conditions for those missions (e.g. a fetch quest that you can fail at the very end by accidentally pulling out your gun). These are pretty much the things that have wound me up about every Rockstar game I've played to date, so I'm back on the fence about this one - realistic horse balls or no realistic horse balls.

I haven't noticed any of that to be honest, although the sheer slowness of the whole thing will be a barrier to entry for some people. Every single thing plays out in a realistic animation, whether it's looting (every tin, every box of bullets, every flower is picked up individually), loading up your horse, or even firing your weapon (you have to cock the weapon yourself after every bullet). There are absolutely no concessions to faster gameplay whatsoever – everything takes as long as it takes in real life, and screw you if you want it to hurry up.

I think, on balance, it makes for a refreshing change. We've had slow TV, this is slow gaming.

And I can't stress enough just how much of a move-on this is from other open worlds. In 4K, in first person, with a pair of decent headphones in, it's this generation's "coming out of the sewers in Oblivion" moment. It is a pain in the arse sometimes, but it's a beautiful pain in the arse.

It's very much a Cowboy Simulator sometimes, compared to how I remember the first game was. Some of this stuff seems like it's going to take ages, like upgrading the camp but I dunno' if I can be arsed to do any of it I just wanna sling gun which at least is very satisfying. I robbed a train last night and very fun it was too.

Also can we ban Horses in games now? I can't think of any in this gen that have been fun or just not annoying. I think the fact that you can lose your horse for good is a bit much and just makes me not wanna invest that much…then again money might be super abundant later I dunno.

Also can we ban Horses in games now? I can't think of any in this gen that have been fun or just not annoying.

(looks at Pocket Card Jockey on 3DS)

Er, what? What?

I got a freebie copy of RDR2 yesterday, and since I am supposed to be studying I promptly loaned my PS4 and RDR to my sister who was considering buying both.

I should be good for babysitting requests for a while.

A friend of mine has got this on disc, so I'll be angling to borrow that in a year or two when he's finally finished it.

I really like Arthur in this so far, or at least the story they're telling with him. How he seems to be getting more and more fed up with the Outlaw life but he's torn between that and his loyalty to Dutch. He's different to John Marston in that he was trying to be a good character whereas Arthur isn't and he isn't deluded about what a piece of shit he is, but it's basically the only life he's known.

So not really a nice person, but I can't help but separate the 'Outlaw Arthur' who is willing to terrorize innocent people on a train for their belongings from the 'Normal Arthur' who is like 'Jesus, again? Fuck sake' for some reason. Some of the stuff he does in the debt collecting missions chills me to the bone too, he's a very scary man.

Yeah the debt-collecting stuff is grim. I know I'm a criminal, but in my head I was playing it as a Han Solo loveable rogue type. Never killed anyone who didn't need killing and all that.

Then the main story requires me to destroy the face of a weeping, down-on-his-luck father, just to unlock fast travel. How's your narrative dissonance.

You do the debt collection with the widow who inherited her husbands debts? What he says to that kid made me shit myself tbh.

Not exactly related to Red Dead, but when I was disconnecting my PS4 I realised with joy that I didn't have to dig the cables out from behind the shelves. The power cable is a figure-8, the output is HDMI, and the controllers charge with micro USB, all of which my sister has spare. I'm fairly sure that this is the first console I have owned which doesn't have any proprietary cables.

Okay, doing any of the specific Outlaw-ey type things in this game in free roam is kinda' shit and unfun and not actually worth doing considering the trouble it causes. Why rob a store for the peanuts you get when you'll most likely get caught and get a bounty way higher than what you just robbed? I had fun robbing my first train, but doing it again and having to somehow deal with the Law no matter where the Train has been stopped and racking up a huge bounty mowing them down (and it stops you robbing the passengers) makes it feel really pointless.

Also, so far I've yet to be able to rob a Bank on my accord, I tried but it was like trying to hold up a Natwest (shoutout to Natwest yo) with a banana and cloth over my mouth, scaring absolutely no one and then just kinda leaving all red faced. I guess they're saving it for online would be my guess, but unless I'm missing something it feels like quite an omission considering the game.

So yeah, stupid Bounty system imo, rewards are not worth the crime from what I can see. At least I'm enjoying the main quests and the side activities more for the most part. I do wonder how much I'll think of this game when I'm through with it though.

Am I missing something? As a big fan of the first, I'm a couple of hours in to this and just not enjoying it. Not sure why.
Shall I press on? I'm tempted to trade for shadow of the tomb raider while the value is still high.

I definitely like it a lot more now (Story completion a little under 50%) than I did after the first few hours, but I offer no guarantees that you'll ever completely come around, and I think you have to make concessions to the game, rather than it making many for you. It takes a while to open up, and there are things that will occur to you/you will try and do early on that the game won't let you do because you haven't done the relevant tutorial mission yet, and so on.

It's seemingly very deliberately slow-burn and a bit fiddly (certainly control-wise), as it attempts to be an Old West simulator rather than just Grand Theft Horsey, but I'm enjoying the general atmosphere and majesty of the whole thing enough to ignore a lot of the things that were really annoying me early on now.

It suddenly occurs to me that I might just have some kind of Stockholm Syndrome though.

Necrothread!

They announced yesterday that Red Dead Online is going to be sold separately from December 1st… it'll be a fiver until next February.

I have RDR2 on PS4 but as a cowboy alternative for Sea of Thieves when I get my Series X, I'm totally down with that. I hope it's not full of prick griefers thouHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Ooooh.