I'm not meaning the comic stuff, I'm meaning the film stuff. The MCU has been going for 10 years, and Spider-man has been going for longer than that. Coming into the film without, like, any knowledge of who the characters are seems like it may require a pretty significant cultural disconnect, especially given the aforementioned ridiculous box-office takings.
Not knowing who any of the characters are would surprise me. Not knowing who all of them are would not, and there are some relative newcomers to the MCU (who also don't have Spider-Man's cultural legacy) who are pretty integral to the plot - Doctor Strange sticks out, not least because he's also a significant departure from the sci-fi standard of the wider MCU.
The film already span enough plates as it is without having to have a scene to re-introduce every single one in the gargantuan cast again. I don't see how this is even an issue, is this not what continuity is?
Before I started watching these, I would have known Spider-Man and Hulk. Probably not any of the others. I think the cultural crossover is less than you think.
Does it really matter though? If these characters were created 5 minutes before their respective films came out…their respective films did come out, it's not like Infinity War expected you to be up to date with every single ongoing standalone comic series for every hero/group in the movie.
Yeah. I’m absolutely not arguing that every MCU film would be improved by a 20-minute segment recapping characters’ backstories for those who missed previous movies. I think they are fine as they are. I think it’s an odd thing for a review to pick up on, and I think it reflects a certain cultural snobbery.
The biggest part of the massive success story of these films is that they have managed to take an impenetrable mess of three generations of interconnected, disparate and occasionally contradictory comics and then make a series of consistent films which work well together without overshadowing each other.
The suggestion that all twenty odd characters should have had an introduction within this film just shows that the reviewer has no idea what this film is. It's hardly the first time that the mainstream media has clutched at straws to put down successful nerd stuff though.
Spoiler - click to showIt just occurred to me that the way Strange and Loki handed over their Infinity Stones was very similar - maybe too much to be a coincidence? They're watching Thanos killing someone, call him off, produce the stone from thin air and hand it over.
Spoiler - click to showI'm not suggesting that there's an in-fiction reason for this, but from a meta perspective it could be the filmmakers indicating that Strange is pulling a Loki.
Spoiler - click to showI'm fairly certain that this is all part of Strange's 14-million-to-one plan to beat Thanos in the long run, but it's an interesting detail… assuming I'm not reading too much into it.
Spoiler - click to showIt's absolutely part of the plan - he even says, right before he vanishes, "it was the only way." Whether it's a deliberate callback to Loki, I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be entirely surprised.
Just caught up on Thor Ragnarok, think it might be my favourite of the Marvel films.
Excited for Infinity War now on Wednesday, even though I've already seen one spoiler thanks to a Marvel fan account on Instagram.
For those in the know: if we haven’t yet seen Spider-Man, Thor Ragnarok or Black Panther, are we missing anything fundamental for Infinity War?
Thor Ragnarok, yes. Spider-Man and Black Panther, not so much. Everything you need to know about those two characters, really, is in Civil War.
Fundamental, no. Useful, yes. Happy to sum what little facts are useful, if you fancy. I did the same for my daughters for the films they missed, so I have form.
There's also stuff in Ragnarok that will be spoiled if you watch Infinity War first.
I'm definitely glad I saw Ragnarok first.
Yeah, Ragnarok is all kinds of fun. I'd definitely watch that one as that has the most impact on what's to come (though several bits of that movie are ignored). Spiderman adds little to the set up for Infinity Wars, but is, I feel, one of the strongest Marvel movies. Black Panther adds a little more, and is also one of the strongest.
In short, three good movies, all quite different in style, and all worth watching.
Ragnarok … has the most impact on what's to come (though several bits of that movie are ignored).
Not ignored, so much as insufficiently addressed. There's one handwavy line from Thor that gives them some wiggle room.
Spoiler - click to showHe says that Thanos "killed half my people", even though we saw the entire Asgardian refugee ship get blown up; presumably Valkyrie and Korg were leading an evacuation attempt on another ship while Thor & co. tried to buy time.
Spoiler - click to showFrankly, I'm not sure the movie could have handled Korg - although a little more levity in the back half might have been helpful.
Oh, I don't deny there is a get-out clause for some of it, but that doesn't change that bits of Ragnarok were handwaved away. I'm not really bothered it happened, was just pointing out that it does.
New trailer for Ant-Man and the Wasp:
Black Panther is probably a must-see before IW in my opinion. So much of the film happens in Wakanda and a lot of things would lose impact.
Other than knowing who a couple of people are, I don't think you'd lose much. Even M'Baku and Okoye aren't much more than featured extras in Infinity War. I guess there's the whole "Wakanda is actually super-advanced" side of things, but you can get that from the tag on Civil War. The plot of Black Panther wholly revolves around internal Wakandan politics, none of which is referred to in any way in Infinity War.
It's a great movie - and I would absolutely recommend seeing it beforehand, if at all possible - but it and Spider-Man Homecoming are way, way less essential to an understanding of Infinity War than Ragnarok.
Ah, I’ll probably stick with plan A in that case and just watch them all in order. I’ll have to wait until the middle of next month for Black Panther to get released but there might still be some showings of Infinity War around then and if not I’ll just wait for the Blu-ray of that too. Thanks everyone.
Could it- maybe not fall off the back of a server?
I've thrown Avengers Assemble on TV while I'm working today and wow it looks like a reasonably-budgeted TV series.
Right? Cap's suit really doesn't help it.
It's the whole scale of the thing - how it's staged, how it's shot, how it's lit… it's all so small and mundane.
The dramatic and emotional beats land perfectly, though. That first full-team orbiting shot from the finale is so quaint when looking back post-Infinity War, but it's still really effective.
Noticeably filmed in a different aspect ratio to most of the others too.
I wonder how much of that comes from Whedon's background in TV. Thor 2 was directed by a TV guy, too, and it never really manages to look particularly cinematic.
Could it- maybe not fall off the back of a server?
I noticed earlier today that it's already started falling off the back of servers, so I might give that a rewatch tomorrow.
Watched Infinity War last night. It was good. It was no Thor Ragnarok, but it was good.
Spoiler - click to showThey should have ended it at the finger click. And not established so obviously that the magic glove can bring people (Vision) back from the dead. At least ending on the click would have left us guessing what had happened, and would have been a ridiculously cool ending. All we got instead was a few minutes of people who definitely aren't dying just disappear for a bit.
Spoiler - click to showSmall gripe though. Otherwise it was very good. It just needed more Korg.
@"Mr Party Hat"
Spoiler - click to showThey should have ended it at the finger click. … At least ending on the click would have left us guessing what had happened, and would have been a ridiculously cool ending.
Spoiler - click to showIt would have made the Captain Marvel post-credit stinger more shocking, for sure.
Spoiler - click to showhttp://www.didthanoskill.me
Spoiler - click to show
God damn it.
I was spared.
Is a screengrab showing the other outcome a valid alternative to a note from your GP, I wonder.
Not much spectacle, absolutely zero spandex and it's on the small screen rather than the silver screen, but we've just watched Marvel's The Punisher and it's surprisingly excellent. It feels very far removed from most of the MCU, as there's no super-stuff here at all, just one very pissed off military vet with access to far too much weaponry. But it's not the incessant gore-fest I'd expected, either, and it has a very considered, almost ponderous pace for the first half of its run before ramping things up as it reaches the end. It has a lot of thoughtful things to say about PTSD and some somewhat less smart things to say about gun control, but it's not afraid to tackle big issues head on.
It's elevated significantly by two absolutely towering performances: not just Jon Bernthal as The Punisher, who's even better here than he was in Daredevil, but also Ben Barnes as his counterpart/frenemy Billy Russo. This show's already become my favourite of all these Netflix Marvel shows, and I'm very glad to hear it's been renewed for a second season.
I just don't know how they can stretch it out for another season, without Spoiler - click to showhaving another conspiracy behind his family's death for him to wreak terrible, bloody violence on; that first series feels, to me, like it's kind of said and done everything it needs to bring his story to a close.
Punisher is the only one of these that I've not gotten around to yet. I keep forgetting it's even a thing, which is weird, because he was like the best thing in Daredevil season 2…
It's got that problem where it wants to show that violence is a bad thing that damages even the people who perpetrate it, but also it puts cool rock music under every bit of unnecessary slo-mo tool-up gun porn because guns don't kill people, people kill people, and those people doing the killing are fuckin' cool badasses.
Rad.
It also missed the point of Frank's family being killed pretty spectacularly which is really annoying and dumb.
Then again, there's a lot of Punisher stories you could run with. I'd kind of want to see them do Kitchen Irish or The Slavers.
I just don't know how they can stretch it out for another season, without Spoiler - click to showhaving another conspiracy behind his family's death for him to wreak terrible, bloody violence on; that first series feels, to me, like it's kind of said and done everything it needs to bring his story to a close.
Spoiler - click to showAt least they've set up a proper adversary for him now, which opens up new possibilities. Season 1 didn't really go in the direction I expected and both main leads were superb so I'm more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. I'd rather watch more of this than Luke Cage or Iron Fist, that's for sure.
On a separate note, I watched Spider-Man: Homecoming last night, that was fun. Up next is Thor 3 though, oh god. The second one was terrible.
Ragnarok is really, really good. A complete tonal shift from the dour, self-serious slog of The Dark World. Thor is even a character now!
Saw Infinity War. Loved it. Still amazed that it held together. Glad I didn't take my six-year-old to see it.
Yeah
Spoiler - click to showThat ending would have been a challenge to explain.
So Thor: Ragnarok is a whole heap of fun, isn't it? Hell of a reboot for a character that's been in about six of these things too: from the po-face fun sponge of The Dark World to, well, Asgardians of the Galaxy. Really, thoroughly enjoyed this one.
So that's my Marvel journey on pause for now as I've run out of Blu-rays. Impossible not to do some kind of mental ranking of these things, so for the record my top 4 would be:
Beyond those 4 there's a whole heap of solidly entertaining titles, so it's almost impossible to rank them. Bottom of the entire list is undoubtedly Thor 2: The Dark World, but there's not much else in there that's actively terrible: Iron Man 3 maybe? The Incredible Hulk? I enjoyed them both well enough at the time though.
there's not much else in there that's actively terrible: Iron Man 3 maybe?
I will never understand this sentence.
OK, "actively terrible" is going way too far. But it's a weak entry, by the generally high standards of the MCU. PTSD Tony Stark, annoying kid sidekick, "save the President" as a key plot strand and a massive overload of weightless CGI in the film's final act. Wasn't keen.
There's a lot of hate for the Mandarin out there but I love everything about that version of the character. It's just an amazing spin on the yellow peril concept.
The Mandarin works (though I think the reveal is too early*), but almost nothing else does.
*going to tag this, just in case…
Spoiler - click to showthe unmasking of Trevor Slattery, toast of Croydon, should be during or immediately before the last fight. Killian just doesn't have anything like enough presence to hold up the entire final act on his own, and there's no real sense of threat as a result, ridiculous "they have the president!" nonsense aside. I mean, has kidnapping the president as a bad thing aged poorly, or what?
The trouble that Iron Man 3 faced, with regards to its ending and the stakes therein, is that it by design couldn't be anything too earth-threatening. It is unfocused, though - the PTSD angle is dropped quite early on (it should have resurfaced at a dramatic moment in the finale to have any impact at all), and the president-kidnapping plot makes no sense (I actually forget why the baddies did it, and I rewatched the film last week).
I will stand up for the kid, because as a reminder to Stark of where he came from, there's some narrative worth in keeping him around, he adds personal stakes to the fight in that little town where otherwise it would just be property damage, and he doesn't outstay his welcome.
As for @Ninchilla's spoiler…
Spoiler - click to showI don't think giving Killian less screen time as the mastermind would have helped him feel more commanding. I think issue is, as I mentioned above, that his goals are vaguely-defined and the steps he takes aren't clearly leading somewhere. It's hard to buy a villainous mastermind if they don't have an actual plot for the hero to stop.