I may have missed the discussion, but did everyone watch Mandalorian season 2? I thought it was excellent, improved on season 1 in every way. The last few episodes had their fair share OF BLOODY HELL moments too.
Maybe the future of Star Wars is in these Disney+ TV shows, rather than film.
I thought it started well – it had more of a structure than the meandering first season, which helped – but I wasn't terribly impressed with its rapid descent into surface-level fanservice at the end. I'm not sure I'm looking forward to a third season, if it's just going to be increasingly tied into the existing canon instead of doing its own thing.
I posted a long moan about it on rllmuk. I think it's pretty shit. Devoid of wit, verve, character or soul. Few moments of visual splendor, but by and large I thought it was totally forgettable nonsense.
Wandavision I enjoyed though. It's sort of the opposite. I don't think it was entirely successful with what it set out to do, but it did commit fairly hard to the idea and 30 seconds of Bettany on screen was worth about 6 seasons of the Mandalorian's "charm".
I enjoyed the Mandalorian, up until the very end, when they dragged out the obvious "reveal" of Spoiler - click to showPS3-era Luke Skywalker.
I even thought they did an okay job with a lot of the existing-canon integration - what are major names for hardcore nerds were dropped without build-up or fanfare, and I though it did a decent job of explaining who people were - to the point they were relevant to this particular story. I am mildly concerned they're going to go in a bigSpoiler - click to showThrawn/Mandalore direction for season 3, and I don't know if it'll be as appealing withoutSpoiler - click to showGrogu.
I am sure Spoiler - click to show grogu will be back.
A friend of mine watched both seasons and thought that
Spoiler - click to showgrogu was literally baby yoda.
Not really adding anything to the chat there, I just thought other people deserved to have their minds boggled with that.
I watched Wandavision and liked it until it got to the end of itself and lol
For those that don't watch Formula 1 but have said they enjoyed Netflix's Formula 1: Drive to Survive, season 3 is up to watch as of today
That's this evening's viewing sorted, ta.
As a convert to this (who hasn't really watched F1 since Nigel Mansell's era) I would recommend it to anyone with even a passing interest in the sport. It's not even about F1 really - it's more a fly on the wall documentary of people with incredible personalities.
We are watching last year's CW DC TV crossover Crisis on Infinite Earths. It's terrible and I kind of love it. Episode 2 managed to tie in all five CW series and the Superman from both Superman Returns and Smallville and Batman of the Future and it referenced both Dark Knight Returns and The Death of Superman. A five minute side plot this episode involved The Flash, White Canary and John Constantine trying to resurrect Oliver Queen in a Lazarus Pit. It is BUSY.
Apologies if this has been mentioned and I've missed it (I searched but didn't find) but I've been completely engrossed by Gangs of London this week. Had a few recommendations by friends who all mentioned the over the top violence but never went much further than that. I think in "normal life" other aspects of the show would have been conveyed – Gareth Evans involvement, the incredible cast who you've either seen in a million other places or in very recent acclaimed TV shows – but the lack of this and the terrible title saw me ignore it out of hand.
Was pressured into giving it a go by an old flatmate and I'm sort of glad he kept his cards close to his chest because when it erupts, thrashes and twists through the first episode it was an absolute thrill. My girlfriend regularly watches things from between her fingers and has been known to scream at well telegraphed gunshots; Gangs of London gave me a taste of what it's like for her. The first episode put me in mind of the first time I saw The Shield and the series has continued in that vein. It's a terrible title though.
I wasn't a huge fan of the first series of Fleabag. It was great, but I didn't think it quite lived up to the hype. But holy shit, the second has to be one of the most consistently wonderful bits of British TV I've ever seen. I'd hesitate to say flawless, but it's damn near close. Everything from the script, the writing, the acting, the aching sense of British awkwardness merged with modern societal tropes…. it was absolutely, monstrously good. Swaggeringly so at times, but you have to let it have it. Fucking amazing.
Does Loki go here, or Spectacle & Spandex?
Anyway, two episodes down. I'm enjoying it, though maybe not as much as Tom Hiddleston clearly is.
I'm waiting for it to Spoiler - click to showpull the rug out from under the whole TVA setup and reveal it as a fake-out, though for what and by who I'm not sure. Pretty sure the Judge whose name I forget (Gugu Mbatha Raw) is a Bigger Deal than she's letting on, though.
Haven't seen the second episode yet, but thought the first was fairly underwhelming. Hiddleston's always watchable but it was basically a 50-minute exposition dump. Fair enough but with only six episodes I'd hoped it would hit the ground running quicker than it did.
Also, The Umbrella Academy did pretty much the exact same plot and that was a lot more fun.
I've never been in this thread before! And yet I watch a lot of stuff. Not TV, I don't have it, but definitely streaming service content.
Last night was a bit of a Disney+ binge.
Loki - Episode 5 of 6, and I'm really enjoying this. It's definitely my favourite of the Marvel TV shows (I liked Falcon, as dry as it was, and Wandavision was an interesting experiment that took a while to settle). Pretty sure I know who the big bad is going to be, and yet that'd be mad to use such a big villain for what is essentially a minor entry to the franchise.
Monsters At Work - aka Monsters Inc, the TV show. It's okay! Not as funny as you might hope, but definitely okay. Keeps Billy Crystal and John Goodman as Mike and Sully, but reduces them to minor parts in favour of a different part of the company, post-fallout from the first movie. Took me a while to work out it's the Fonz playing one of the new lead roles. Will keep watching.
The Mysterious Benedict Society - I'm REALLY enjoying this. Has strong Series of Unfortunate Events vibes (which I adored on Netflix) and the kids in particular are fun to watch. Looking forward to seeing where it goes, especially after the (rather obvious) twist in episode 2. The messaging is quite on point though, especially given how the real world is turning at the moment.
As far as the Loki villain goes, if it is who comic bookier folks than me think it is, it's not that much of a surprise; there have been little references through the show, and I'm sure I read somewhere that they're intending to use these shows as origin stories/intros for characters going forward. Interesting that they're doing it for a villain, but given that they're rumoured to be the Big Bad going forward, I'll not be hugely surprised if it does turn out to be Spoiler - click to showKang.
I think it is, yeah. Given that he's potentially been referenced in the likes of Captain Marvel and is already in the next Ant-Man movie, I guess it makes sense? But even so, still a bit weird.
Episode 5 had a whole bunch of things in that basically said 'IT'S THIS GUY', so they're not being very mysterious about it any more.
Haven't seen episode 5 yet so I'm not reading that spoiler and the chances are I wouldn't even know who it is anyway.
But don't forget they introduced Thanos in a post-credits sequence at the end of the first Avengers movie, completely out of nowhere, so I guess they have form for introducing big bad guys in peculiar ways.
I can't see any way that the big reveal is going to be satisfying. It's either going to be an evil Variant of another character, which is boring and obvious, or it's going to be someone that we haven't got any existing relationship with, which isn't going to land with any impact.
I honestly miss the small-scale, weird tone of the first couple of episodes. It's turned into the big-budget Marvel-by-numbers, and I can feel my enthusiasm and investment draining away with every big, obvious CGI chromakey shot.
It does feel like it's getting increasingly less personal, for sure.
Wandavision had a great, interesting premise and ended with two actors doing effort-faces and streams of particle effects being painted on afterwards.
Falcon and the Winter Soldier was such dross I stopped before the end.
Loki's been neat so far, though. The last episode has been very 'oh, that's convenient'.
I can't see any way that the big reveal is going to be satisfying. It's either going to be an evil Variant of another character, which is boring and obvious, or it's going to be someone that we haven't got any existing relationship with, which isn't going to land with any impact.
Hope you like the latter!
Wandavision had a great, interesting premise and ended with two actors doing effort-faces and streams of particle effects being painted on afterwards.
Falcon and the Winter Soldier was such dross I stopped before the end.
Loki's been neat so far, though. The last episode has been very 'oh, that's convenient'.
Wandavision's been the best of these, I think, with a very striking setup and that single great line about grief that'll probably outlive everything else the MCU has ever done. It bottled it a bit when the fourth episode laid out everything in detail for the hard of thinking, and it did descend into CGI bollocks at the end there, but it was still a great show that I think would sustain a rewatch very well.
F&TWS started off badly, had one of the worst actresses I've ever seen stinking up a major role, and failed to really capitalise on its best character (fake Cap), but it did improve as it went on and its themes were solid. It went further into the systemic racism side of things than I thought a Marvel/Disney property would do.
Loki I'm still unsure about. Hiddleston doesn't really feel like he's playing the same character and it basically started with two straight hours of exposition and then a Doctor Who episode; but I think it may become more than the sum of its parts. As I said I haven't watched episode 5 yet anyway.
Agreed - I really enjoyed the first half of Wandavision but slowly lost interest as the superhero bits kicked in. The historical angle was potentially interesting but was very clunkily done and the shooty fire sky boom bang was dull dull dull. Bettany and Olsen were great throughout though,and there was one particularly brilliant stunt cameo.
Loki, I lost interest halfway through the second episode. OK parallel universes great, but give me something to latch onto that isn't a meta we-know-this-is-a-bit-silly-smirk… Tom and the Wilson looked like they were having fun, but I just couldn't care enough about any of it. Not even tried Falcon, not sure why you'd base a series on two the least interesting characters in the films. I'd rather watch hawkeye tend his garden for six hours.
Honestly, I'd probably be enjoying the MCU TV stuff a lot more if I hadn't already seen LEGION. Obviously it's let off the leash a lot by not having to dovetail with a multi-billion-dollar serial movie franchise, but I wish Marvel would make something with a tenth of that show's creativity.
You're setting up a multiverse, for God's sake – you can't take the risk with something actually interesting? Surely the MCU's got enough pop-cultural momentum to absorb a couple of small, experimental TV miniseries'. Not everything needs to make a billion dollars, right?
Right..?
I've been really enjoying Loki. Love the aesthetic and the scenery. The characters are entertaining and occasionally funny. It might not be full of surprises but it's still good.
Legion was a thousand times better, but that's an accusation which can be leveled at most things.
Legion was a thousand times better, but that's an accusation which can be leveled at most things.
Agreed, Legion was brilliant in all sorts of ways. The only thing I've seen that has come close in the MCU is the almost Lynchian horror elements in the first couple of episodes of Wandavision, but that got chucked once the BRAND kicked in again.
I guess the central control is necessary to maintain the BRAND consistency and narrative they've achieved so far, but at some point they have to loosen up a bit shurely? A multiverse seems like an ideal way to do that… They've got all these interesting directors involved in the next wave - I hope they allow them a bit of freedom accordingly. Taika Waititi managed to balance his style and the requirements of the central BRAND pretty well in the last Thor film, maybe some of the others will manage as well.
I think Wandavision was bolder (at least initially) than a lot of people expected. And all three series have had their own identity. I think they're doing OK, really. The next one is an animated compendium of multiverse stories which will be different again.
Part of the problem is perhaps that Phase 4 hasn't really kicked off yet - they are relying on these TV shows to maintain viewer interest after a long Covid gap and in the absence of any major movies. They can't go too far in case they risk alienating their audience before the movies even resume.
I'd rather watch hawkeye tend his garden for six hours.
Ah, so you've already seen the plot synopsis for the (genuinely announced) Hawkeye series then.
I'd rather watch hawkeye tend his garden for six hours.
Ah, so you've already seen the plot synopsis for the (genuinely announced) Hawkeye series then.
Can't wait. Looking forward to his tips on overwintering dahlias.
Jeremy Renner is a bit of an odd one, isn't he? Perfectly competent but I don't think I've ever been excited by him (fnar). Even in the Hurt Locker, he was just sort of there in the middle of the tension. Could have been anyone though really. Made Bourne a bit boring but not awful. Was not quite as wasted as everyone else in American Hustle. He just keeps on everymanning along, never appalling, but never going to grab the attention or change anything. An acting equivalent of a Ford Focus, or Jordan Henderson.
There are persistent rumours that Renner was included in Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol as a stealth-pilot-style replacement for an allegedly-ageing Tom Cruise. As always, he turned in a solid-if-unremarkable performance, and then Cruise decided he wanted to keep doing Impossible Missions.
I think he needs a new agent. Get cast in something unexpected, not another popcorn action franchise that's already multiple movies in.
I mean, Renner's a shitbag that threatened to kill his wife so he should probably keep his agent who's managed to keep getting him roles even though he should have been MeToo'd long ago.
I mean, Renner's a shitbag that threatened to kill his wife so he should probably keep his agent who's managed to keep getting him roles even though he should have been MeToo'd long ago.
Bloody hell, really? What a shitbag. I had no idea.
Me neither. This is why we can't have nice things. FFS.
I'm very fun at parties.
Yeah, Luscan beat me to it. I was thinking that we might have seen the last of him in Marvel.
Yeah, Luscan beat me to it. I was thinking that we might have seen the last of him in Marvel.
I dunno about that… You'd be amazed at what the house of mouse can cover up and make people forget all about. They could have ditched him at any point in the last 5 years since people started to work out that maybe he's just kind of a shit. They considered it, decided not to, moved on.
Final episode of Loki, then:
Spoiler - click to showWas I supposed to know who that guy was? It seemed all set for a big reveal and then basically it just all fizzled out with an unsatisfying cliffhanger. I'm assuming he's someone from the comics but as an MCU-only viewer it all fell very flat. Also I didn't get the whole thing about "Renslayer's secret" at all, why she was suddenly a teacher in Ohio for one scene. Maybe I wasn't paying attention.
The Renslayer thing Spoiler - click to show wasn't about revealing it to us, it was Hunter B-15 showing the rest of the TVA.
As far as the rest of it went, in particular The Big Reveal,Spoiler - click to showI was surprised they didn't give his name, not that it would likely have meant a great deal to anyone not up on obscure-ish comic book villains. Everything I know comes from a combination of YouTube theory videos, and that the actor was cast in Ant-Man and the Wasp in Quantumania.
Of all the shows so far, this is the one that feels like it might be the most essential to understanding what comes nextin the MCU; both Wandavision & The Falcon and the Winter Soldier end with everyone where you could have reasonably assumed based on the ending of Endgame, and any developments they did care to fold in would be relatively easy to explain. I don't envy anyone who has to try and weave this into the next Spider-Man, or whatever.
But hey - at least it wasn't another big magic laser sky battle.
Ah, OK, that makes sense about Renslayer. I wasn't paying attention (or the fact that they spent about a minute in the whole episode with those characters kind of threw me, I guess).
I really enjoyed Loki overall, thought it started a bit slow but it's been easily the best of these series overall. It certainly makes the case for the TV shows being as essential to the MCU as the movies are. And now we have a theme, and it seems a villain, for Phase 4.
I'd agree, I enjoyed it overall and didn't really have any idea who was who and what was going on in the last episode. I do think the second season could be quite good - I assume we'll get a jetski payoff, a bit of buddy cop movie/Time Bandits vibe and a bit more freedom to operate free from the shackles of setting up a film series. It could essentially be an American Doctor Who.
I only knew who the big bad was because I'd read a bunch of theories about it ahead of watching the finale, and picking up on the "Conqueror" drop.
I thought it was a satisfying conclusion, though – even with this weird guy showing up and expositing his own backstory. I was quite surprised at how thematically appropriate the dilemma he presented the Lokis with was, too – it offered them both a version of what they'd wanted (destroying and/or taking over the TVA), so the fight they got into didn't feel like the obligatory action sequence it could have.
It's hard to see what the overall arc of a second season is going to be, now that they've achieved the first's "kick off a multiverse" goal. Presumably they're not going to tie off all the branching timelines in a streaming TV show, or try to shoehorn a multiversal war onto Disney+ when they could get three new Avengers movies out of it instead. Especially if they're setting Kang up as the next Thanos.
Maybe they'll focus more on the intimate character stuff that the first few episodes excelled at.
I've read up and still don't understand the last episode or who/what Kang/Immortus/whoever is. But apart from that, I thought the series was largely successful. Think I preferred Wanda on balance, but it's close.
As I understood it, He Who Remains was the survivor of the multiversal war - the remaining variant of a whole bunch of variants that tried to annihilate each other's timelines. He set up the TVA to maintain that reality, though it's unclear if leaving the multiverse alone to do its thing(s) would actually have resulted in the annihilation of all timelines, but I guess that's Loki's dilemma.
I have no idea what season 2 of this show looks like - I'm hoping that Spider-Man or Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness explains the metaphysical setup in a more concise, multiplex-friendly fashion than a fifteen-minute monologue from an unreliable narrator.
In the multiverse are there multiple timelines with multiple branches? So, within the main golden timeline in the thing we've been watching there's the main flow of time and variants being pulled in from all the pruned branches (which split off for whatever reason). And this is replicated multiple times in the multiverse? So there is Alpha Kang, then all the Kangs from all the other timelines and then variants of all of them? Surely in the other timelines with bad Kang energy they'd not have a TVA and be left to branch out like wildfire? Or did he say the other timelines had literally been destroyed in the 31st century?
I think the implication was that the TVA had gone back and annihilated all the other timelines pre-Multiversal War, so that never happened?
BUT - at the start of the last episode, the camera pulls out of one universe (accompanied by chatter from the MCU movies) and then zooms into another (accompanied by chatter from the Disney+ shows), where He Who Remains's fortress is (I assume it's supposed to be another universe because the visual is very similar to the "stacked universes" shown in his explanatory monologue). So… shrug?
It's a good show, but it explains fuckin' nothing.
We watched the first 3 episodes of Masters of the Universe Revelations last night.
It is Not Good.
I watched the first one and thought it was perfectly fine, does it go badly off the rails after that?