Games are too big. They need to calm down.
For the last year and a bit, I've been slogging through:
Yakuza 0, which despite me loving has massively outstayed its welcome. I don't care about the cabaret any more, or the darts, or the karaoke, I just want to burn through to the end of the story.
Ni No Kuni 2, which I just abandoned after the novelty wore off.
Red Dead 2, which is just 70 hours of some cowboys moping about.
AssOdyssey, which got boring after I'd uncovered about 6% of the map (so 40 hours in). I'm slogging on, though.
Spiderman PS4, which is a great 12-hour game spread thinly onto a boring open world.
And it's such a shame, because for the first ten-twenty hours, before the novelty wore off, every mechanic in these games thrilled me. I thought they were bloody amazing. And now they're just dead-weight obstacles I have to overcome before I can move onto something fresh. The gameplay and worlds developers are building simply aren't interesting enough to engage me for 100 hours. Because I'm human, and I crave novelty.
Is anyone else bored of the bloat? It's happening in cinema too, with summer blockbusters frequently passing the 2hr20 mark. That in itself is mental, so how is a game with worse acting/writing/world-building supposed to keep me entertained for 50 times that?
I think it's a bigger problem in open world games than level-driven stuff. I've sunk dozens of hours into Hitman's first six levels and not one of them has outstayed its welcome. In fact, I feel like all of them still have more for me to learn.
Open worlds are by their nature exhausting. There's a huge map that you're obligated to uncover, collectibles to find, side missions and subquests and loot and Easter eggs - and that's assuming there's no crafting or XP system to farm.
It's too much to hold in your head all at once. Sure, after 60 hours you might recognise landmarks enough to find your way around without opening the bewildering, icon-cluttered map screen, but until that point it's a daunting, confusing and unfamiliar place that's constantly urging you to Get On With Stuff.
Which is fine while the mechanical novelty is fresh, but there's always a dip where it's no longer exciting and not yet familiar and all that's left is the churn.
Hmmm, not sure I entirely agree. I love immersing myself in long games and the majority of my gaming time last year was spent on a few huge games: Yakuza Zero, Hitman 2, two flavours of Monster Hunter and Ass Odyssey. AAA games are getting bigger for sure but none of those are really strung out or short on varied content.
There are loads of really great shorter games out there too, more than ever before, so maybe try mixing it up a bit? I’m still playing Hitman 2 for instance (which does “huge game” just right, with an inconsequential story and a variety of wildly different sandboxes you can jump into at any time depending on mood) but I took a break to play Shenmue and I’ve got Guacamelee 2 on the go as well.
My concern’s mostly around the need for everything to be a live service these days, like they’re terrified you’ll ever do anything else. Hitman has time limited content you’ll miss out on for good if you don’t keep playing, Ass Odyssey’s DLC has been really disappointing and sometimes it would be nice just to be DONE with something, however much you’ve enjoyed the journey.
Sadly, we live in a world where 'games as a service' is very much a thing. For instances where there can't be a service - no online, no multiplayer, no continual supply of content ala Destiny - that's supplemented with dragging out the experience for as long as feasibly possible.
You've got arseholes complaining that Game X isn't worth Value Y because it's too short, but then also complaining that they don't want to spend Value Y because games are too expensive and developers should be delivering entertainment directly into their eyeballs for as little cash as possible. Hence why Steam's a massive fuck-up because people have been trained to expect massive discounts, and why we have a Bargain thread so people can snap things up cheap. I guess the shit economy plays into that though… people just can't afford a lot of games, so having things to trudge through endlessly rather than running out of entertainment covers that up a bit.
We've totally forgotten the days when a game could be picked up, played and then moved on from, left behind for the next thing. I liked those days. There's nothing wrong with enjoying a game, an experience for what it is and then going to do something else. Sadly, the thinking now is that unless people are playing your game, only your game and absolutely nothing else, it's a missed opportunity. You'd think publishers would want people buying more games, not less.
If you're the sort of person who likes to sit and whittle away at monolithic open world games, fair play. I've sunk an embarrassing number of hours (and £) into Elite.
But I do feel like there's a difference between setting little goals for myself and the Ubisoft iconapalooza approach. I don't feel like I'm leaving things unfinished if I don't play Elite for a week or two, because the game itself lacks the structure to have a finish line.
A laundry list of stuff just gives me fatigue.
I took a break to play Shenmue
I thought about Shenmue when I was writing my post - and I think the changes between the first and second games actually illustrate my levels-vs-world point pretty well.
The first game is about detail. It's about learning a small set of locations, where everything is, who knows what. The second game trades all of that in for More Bigger Places, which never have that same comfortable familiarity. Of course, Shenmue II rolls its credits in about 30 hours and is actually split up into very distinct sections, so that fatigue never really sets in.
That’s also a very deliberate thematic choice in Shenmue, of course, not just an attempt to bloat out the game for the sake of it.
Maybe I’m more motivated by trophies than others? I’m not Mart levels of obsessive but I find them a great motivator for open world games in particular. I Platinum’d Odyssey and would never have seen half the things I did in that game without that extra incentive to continue after finishing the story.
I'm only interested in Trophies when there are just a couple left. That Platinum might entice me over the line, but it's not going to work if the novelty wears off and I'm only at 12% completion.
The problem I have with gaming, or actually modern culture, is that it's so easy to fall into the trap of being overwhelmed by the hype machine, you MUST have this etc. I'm mostly able to ignore it, pick up stuff when I can afford it and play through at my own pace but this past week with everyone talking about Resi 2 I've definely felt like I NEED to play it. Even though historically the series has never really grabbed me. Likewise, Charly REALLY wants Kingdom Hearts 3 despite never finishing the second game. I've bought 1.5 + 2.5 HD Remix to put away for her birthday (when there's a higher chance she might have enough energy to actually follow it's plot) then I'll get her 3 for Christmas.
Maybe I’m more motivated by trophies than others? I’m not Mart levels of obsessive but I find them a great motivator for open world games in particular.
Fair point. I think that in itself is another discussion though - my personal problem is that I'm less inclined to play something on Switch or Steam simply because I'm not invested in the achievement system of one platform and the other doesn't even have one. That constant nudge, that pat on the back and then final closure seems to be what drives me to play stuff these days. Only stuff that really grabs me gets an exception pass… and the last game I remember that being was Super Mario Odyssey, where there were so many Moons to collect, you could get them fast enough that each one filled that 'well done!' void. Hmm.
The problem I have with gaming, or actually modern culture, is that it's so easy to fall into the trap of being overwhelmed by the hype machine, you MUST have this etc. I'm mostly able to ignore it, pick up stuff when I can afford it and play through at my own pace but this past week with everyone talking about Resi 2 I've definely felt like I NEED to play it. Even though historically the series has never really grabbed me. Likewise, Charly REALLY wants Kingdom Hearts 3 despite never finishing the second game.
I used to have this problem. I once bought Gran Turismo on PSOne because everyone was saying it was amazing, despite hating realistic racing games. I bought every Smash game, despite knowing each time that it wasn't the game for me. It's likely why we all have piles of shame everywhere we look. Thankfully, I think I've got it under control. I know RE2 looks great and everyone's saying it is, but it's not for a big scaredycat like me so I won't be getting it (though if it shows up in the 2019 BAFTA list… well, duh). Fingers crossed I can keep that up.
This thread is definitely one after my own heart; the two main things being discussed in here are the two that I'm currently either most likely to be caught complaining about, or am actively trying to move away from, gaming-wise.
I'm currently playing through RDR2. It's all I've played on my PS4 in about two months. For all the time I've spent enjoying it, and marveling at the incredible world Rockstar have built, I've spent nearly as much time contemplating the wisdom of some of the design choices, and wondering when it will fucking end.
(For reference, I think I must be somewhere in the 60-80 hour range, and am at 92% completion, on Epilogue 2. That's bearing in mind all I've done for the most part have been the Story missions and optional Honor missions, with very little done in the way of hunting, etc.)
It definitely seems to be mainly the open-world games that are guiltiest of unnecessary padding - I couldn't get through Just Cause 3, and have skipped every AC since Black Flag because I couldn't be bothered anymore. Spider-Man wasn't as bad, partially because it never stops being fun traversing the world, though I will wait a little longer before I go back and play the DLC. It's not the length of the games I mind - I actually want to go back to playing RPGs, both Western and J - it's the icons that have been vomited over the world maps of games that shouldn't need (and don't warrant) that kind of time investment..
As far as the 'games as a service' thing, I've stopped taking any interest in "lifestyle games" at all - I spent far too much of the last few years letting the backlog grow while I played Destiny(s), The Division, Rocket League, Elder Scrolls Online, and even Hearthstone, and have my regrets now. Gaming is already my hobby, so I don't need individual games to become hobbies in their own right too.
Gaming is already my hobby, so I don't need individual games to become hobbies in their own right too.
Couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I'm stealing that. 
I don't need individual games to become hobbies in their own right too.
I got a bit of a shock recently when that My Life with Playstation video thing came out and it showed that between September 2017 and July 2018 I sank 240 hours into Fortnite. If I'd not done that I'd conceivably have finished the Witcher 3, Deus Ex and had change left to run through Hitman, Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 again.
I've mentioned this before but time spent with Fortnite highlighted what can manage in terms of gaming at the moment; good mechanics and a satisfying game play loop seem to be key. Also I just don't have time to retain knowledge about intricate systems which is kind of why I keep putting Witcher 3 down or rather why I don't pick it up again. It's also probably why I was more than happy to pick up GTA V again and drop another 80-100 hours into that.
I'm kind of happy to have Elite as a "separate" hobby; it makes me feel less bad about not spending time on it when other games take over my free time, and I don't feel like I'm abandoning my backlog when I play it. Also it helps me justify the cost of a flight stick.
It helps that it requires a very different mentality from, say, Hitman – it's very zen, low-reaction stuff (at least the way I play). Sitting in a planetary ring, lasering chunks of minerals out of asteroids for a couple of hours is pretty relaxing, and doesn't feel like it's occupying my entire brain the way that PS4 games do.
I miss that kind of game; back in the day, it was materials/crafting loops in WoW with some half-decent TV on the other screen. But at the moment, I don't really have any low-energy gaming, so I often just spend 20 minutes scrolling through my library until I give up.
Rockstar went so far up their own arse with Red Dead 2, it's kinda' bad when you think about all those work hours that went into some of that shit.
As far as open world games go, and I know I'm beating a personal dead horse here but, Breath of the Wild is the only one worth playing now honestly. I don't think there's any bloat in it at all, especially considering you can finish it when you think you are able and every activity you can do is really fun.
Non open world games? I think there are some good ones still out there that don't pad themselves out, Resident Evil 2 Remake springs to mind, I only played the demo but from what I hear it's pretty much a GOTY contender. In January. And it doesn't pad.
I'm interested to see if you can see the story mode for Smash through the end.:p
I'm almost ashamed to admit it, but I sort of… bounced off Breath of the Wild. It's undoubtedly good, but it also felt kind of… aimless? Like, I know, Kill Ganon - but outside of that, I felt like I was just meandering around and didn't know where to go. I don't doubt I'll go back to it (and probably have to restart it), but it just didn't click for me.
The lack of direction was its greatest strength, for me. It was a perfect new approach after years of Ubisoft map-icon fatigue. It was 100 hours of "ooooh, I wonder what's over there" rather than "ugh, I have to go over there."
Breath of the Wild is a brilliant example, for me, of a long game done right. There was absolutely no padding – you could complete it in under five hours if you had the skillz. It kept people hanging around by virtue of being utterly wonderful, and a place people wanted to explore.
Breath of the Wild reminds me a little bit of Fallout 3, in that you emerge from a vault into a huge world with very little direction. It took me three or four starts (and watching Minx play it) before I realised how to approach Fallout 3.
I liked Breath of the Wild but I also found it just a little aimless. And too much of the final section revolved around being able to parry those giant robot spider things which was a skill I never quite mastered so in the end frustration got the better of me and I never completed it. I did complete all the giant creatures though and enjoyed what I played.
I guess this thread is the reason why I keep bouncing off of MMOs. In theory I love them - they're the kind of endlessly expansive gameworld that I enjoy most of all, and I'm not averse to a spot of grinding so I always really enjoy them to start with. But they're not really compatible with doing anything else in your life: you always have to sink so much time into them and the multiplayer aspects are always so time-consuming that I end up dropping them after a month or two. The only ones I've ever really stuck with are LOTRO and Final Fantasy XIV, both of which can be played predominantly single-player, but LOTRO is 99% grind and FFXIV always sucks me back into doing the multiplayer dungeons (because they're the best bit), however much I promise myself I'm going to stick to the single-player, and I end up getting annoyed with all the queuing and the preparation you need to do for those. I'm sure at some point I'll resubscribe to FFXIV for a month or two and play through Stormblood and really enjoy it, but I could never stick the kind of perpetually group-focused gameplay that someone like Alastor has so much fun with.
Breath of the Wild is a brilliant example, for me, of a long game done right. There was absolutely no padding – you could complete it in under five hours if you had the skillz.
I'm going to assume you've not seen the video of the guy finishing it in 12 minutes then. 
BOTW had some great gameplay decisions for an open world imo, they made Link practically able to climb everything and gave you every tool you needed in the first hour or so of the game so everything you could see you could pretty much reach (and everything you could see you could instantly mark). This made exploration not feel like a chore or anything like that because it was just so easy.
I'm sure at some point I'll resubscribe to FFXIV for a month or two and play through Stormblood and really enjoy it, but I could never stick the kind of perpetually group-focused gameplay that someone like Alastor has so much fun with.
I think the gameplay of FFXIV is underrated, it's got such a fun combat system, it has a great world to inhabit too but I think the combat system is my favourite aspect. MMO's padding is 'different' to offline game padding imo though. The game could potentially fall apart in some areas if say, crafters could just get everything they wanted straight away or crafters got all their gear in one day, it'd be like 'what's the point of raiding now' and then no one ends up playing the game anymore.
This conversation starts and end with Arkham Asylum for me. pretty much the perfect map. You could traverse from end to end in a few minutes, but with was just the right amount of exploration.
It’s a good example. My Steam stats showed I played Arkham Asylum for about 15 hours and I have nothing but good memories of it. By contrast I put three times that amount of time into Arkham Knight and finally abandoned it as the side quests just never ended.
I've been back to Assassin's Creed Odyssey over the last couple of nights, which has had loads of stuff added to it since I last played a couple of months ago.
It kind of demonstrates the good and the bad of the "games as a service" model. It's great that they're continuing to support this with monthly updates and they've added some decent stuff: cosmetic upgrades, new mercenary tiers and ship upgrades, some excellent QOL improvements and a handful of new mechanics. The Lost Tales of Greece are an ongoing series of additional side quests that are regularly added for all users and they're pretty good - nice little quest chains in areas of the world you might not previously have explored. They're generous extras and it's nice to have new stuff regularly drip-fed in this way. But also they're pretty much exactly the same stuff as already exists in abundance throughout the game: if I'm honest I'm really only playing these for the trophies as there are plenty of other side quests I haven't done that I don't really have any impulse to go back and play now I've finished the game.
The DLC for the season pass is also an ongoing thing - two packs split into three parts apiece, so also released on roughly a monthly basis. This seems rather less successful, as so far it's not very good - over-earnest, dour stories with no new areas to explore, and a resolution to the second episode that was so badly handled that they're apparently patching it soon to make it less jarring for players. So far I'm kind of regretting getting the season pass - the main game was really fun (and in no way short of content) but the DLC feels like an obligation rather than a pleasure to play. I'm hoping the second pack, which sounds more ambitious, ends up being better than the first.
Sadly the feeling I'm getting from this right now is that it never seems to end.
